SSJ3 energy cost reduction

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    • #48962
      altimos
      Participant

      Recently realizing that SSJ3 cost more energy than any other form, including all god form.

      I think that because in the past SSJ3 was the highest form, but over time other forms were added to the game and it seems like the cost of SSJ3 stay untouched… and I mean It doesn’t make much sense for it to have this insane cost compare to all other forms.

      I mean, yeah golden Oozaru also has a strong cost, but here the high cost is here to counterbalance the fact that it’s a strong shape that you can access early. But SSJ3 is a middle-tier transformation that you acquire mid-game so anything justifies the crazy cost.

      And yeah I know… Transformation cost are totally negligible anyway. But many public server tend to increase the cost of all transformation to make them balance… but they never take time to give a fair cost to all of them and simply multply them all. Most of the time they use the end game form as a reference to see if it’s balanced or not. But because SSJ3 cost 3 time more KI than end game transformation… you often end up losing 1/3 of your gauge per tick when you try to use it.

      I don’t say it should have the same energy cost has SSJ2 or 4 but maybe like… same as SSGSS blue at max if not a bit lower.

      I don’t know if server owners can modify but it’s not like they have time to give to minor change like that… So here I’m today trying to ask the change to be done on the base mod ^^;

      So yeah, I’m complaining about something really tiny/specific I know. But I also think that could be a small change that will not ruin the experience and it will allow people who like SSJ3 to use it on public server.

      Thank you if you at least took the time to read this suggestion. ^^

    • #48966
      FireTamer81
      Participant

      I don’t know much about the lore of the Dragon Ball Series, but I think the energy cost for ss3 is understandable. In the series there are two types of ki, normal and god. Normal ki is wild and it shows in the super saiyan forms that using kaio-kin is impossible, but entirely possible in the god forms given the energy used is denser and calmer. So, perhaps ss3 having such a high cost is because it’s the highest “unstable form” for saiyans, and encourages players to then go for the god forms.

    • #48967
      Zero
      Participant

      It’s because ssj3 drains so much that not even vegeta wont learn it. Vegeta laughs at the thought of ssj3 when trunks told him to go ssj3 and just went blue.

      • #48969
        altimos
        Participant

        Vegeta probably skip SSJ3 because he as a stronger shape than that at this point. That doesn’t automatically mean that SSJ3 is garbage by itself.

        If it was the case, why Goku used it so much before when he judged SSJ1 grade 2 to be useless? (I say that because in the mod SSJ1 grade 2 is more efficient than SSJ3)

    • #48968
      altimos
      Participant

      I don’t think it makes much sense cause SSJ1 2 and 4 are all viable shape, so why SSJ should be the only one to be like “Okay this one is bad just so you wait for the next one”. And it’s kinda sad to have a form that you still gonna take time to farm who is useless just to push you to take the next upgrade. I mean SSJ1 grade 2 consumes a lot of ki too and also is shown to be even less effective than SSJ3, but it’s 2 or 3 times less ki than SSJ3 and there for it’s manageable

      And about the ki cost, Can’t tell either but it’s not like the mod was totally accurate with the shape lore anyway. I mean, for example, SSJ1 Grade 2 should reduce your agility and your speed if we were accurate to the manga. But if we do so… the form would become just a reference and not a tool that a player may use. Also, the official power multiplier in the manga are:

      10x normal for Oozaru
      50X normal for SSJ1
      100x normal for SSJ2
      300x Normal for SSJ3
      etc…

      So of course those number are way to crazy too for the mod, and that because games don’t have the same rule as a manga story. I don’t mean either that we shouldn’t care about canon of course but here the problem is SSJ3 becoming fully unusable on servers who increase the transformation cost. I’m sure that if SSJ3 cost could be the same one as SSJ grade 2 and it won’t be that incoherent. I mean it’s not like Goku was only able to keep SSJ3 active for 10 seconds max like the kaioken, and what about Gotenks who manage to keep it for way longer than that. I still think that the cost of it was that high because it was once the strongest transformation of all.

      At worst it would be just a small “maybe non that canon” change to fix the problem that make the form useless on certain servers.

    • #48982
      Zero
      Participant

      There is a video someone made of why ssj3 drains so much. I do love ssj3 but when it come’s to canon ssj3 is very strong but is very hard to master. Should they make the drain less? yes…yeah because to get to ssj4 you need 1.250.000 tp AND! ssj4 drains less then ssj2. Ssj3 cost I think 450k or 750k I don’t remember but ssj4 drain’s less then a ssj2 (from what someone tested on the server) is a bit crazy. Then again there tail is there weak point so if it get’s cut off your base form.

      I will say this about canon. Ssj4 was not going to be added because of canon, but it was added and so was 5th form. Now here is something that is canon and not added, arco’s buff form. Saiyans have waaaay to many forms and all the race’s have forms to BUT arco just get’s PP untill 5th form and that’s like ssj3 to them and…then there is golden that is…50 mill tp cost because it’s a “god” form when it is not. It’s stronger then ssjb when goku fought freiza but it took to much to hold just like ssj3.

      My point is IF there going to go by canon with ssj3 then they have to add buff arco form because it’s canon and arco’s need at lest one form before 5th form.

      • This reply was modified 1 year ago by Zero.
      • This reply was modified 1 year ago by Zero.
    • #48975
      Zero
      Participant

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbPZzRmuUew&ab_channel=MasakoX Also as for canon arco’s get 5th form and that’s not canon, even ssj4 is not as well. But arcos needed something so we got 5th form and…yes saiyans got ssj4/ssj5 but we know that’s a joke. I do love ssj3 but it’s up to the owner’s of the server to change there drain. Hell ssj4 drains less then ssj2 does from what I was told on jins server…I mean I get it because ssj4 is to be the top of super saiyan forms and it hardly uses ki to stay in it.

      But you know what form is not in the game because blllaaaaa its not a form even though it was shown in super to be one? Buff form for arco’s. Even freiza told frost it’s a form yet nope not added. Again I love ssj3 but with ssj4 and 5th added there is no canon anymore. I mean they added REAL bp….dbz and super is always about there crazy power levels and yet they made a REAL bp update…that could of been used to make more content…

      • #49011
        altimos
        Participant

        Well, I think that in the end it’s not useful to go this deep into coherence with the original manga or non-canon or whatever. Mainly cause it depend a lot on the perception of everyone

        What is clear is that the mod MUST sometime put the coherence aside in favor of game balance and or enjoyment… And in that regard I don’t think that putting something in the mod just to make useless for coherence reason isn’t something that should be done. This is the main reason why I think that form like SSJ3 (or arco 5th) shouldn’t be costing 5 times more ki than other higher form without anything to make them unique.

      • #49012
        altimos
        Participant

        As for the video… there is a few point I would like to point out. First, no goku didn’t need to power up for an insaly long time to use it. When he fights buu for the second time, just before cutting him in half with a disk he changes into ssj3 in just a second.
        Then it’s indeed a better option then Ultra SSJ cause you gain speed instead of loosing some of it.
        And all the “Vegeta don’t use it” or “Goku match trunk” aren’t proof either, Maybe Vegeta prefer to go god directly to not waste time, and maybe goku wasn’t going all out against trunk.

        I mean, the SSJ3 WAS good in the context of the Buu saga in the way that it could work as a burst of power to take down your enemy quickly. Yeah, why do you need to stay longer in a fight if you can take your enemy down quickly ? And in the Buu saga… goku wasn’t strong enough in SSJ2 so no using SSJ3 wasn’t a dumb idea.

        So basically SSj3 wasn’t designed as something that gonna replace SSJ1 or 2 but rather another option complementary to it…

        Then SSJ4 was added in GT mainly for senaristic and visual reason. SSJ4 main goal is to allow goku to fight in an adult form to make him look serious in his fight. There you can’t give this new shape energy restriction cause you want goku to use it all the time…

        Same for SSJ god and super ssj god, the goal here is to show that now goku and vegeta are on higher level, that all. (even if sometime they re use SSJ1,2 and sometime even 3 like in the episode where krilin got his new power up.)

        All that to say that SSJ3 was made bad just for senaristic reason, and it’s shame that the game make SSJ3 specificaly useless just cause of reason that have nothing to do with the mod itself.

    • #49058
      A120
      Participant

      I think that at the end of the day SSJ3 is known to be rather energy consuming. Whether that still remains the case in Super remains to be debated, but by the time it could be hypothetically useful, the god forms were in play and for the most part better in every way in terms of power and sustainability (Despite Blue’s supposed stamina drain but that’s a different topic).

      Either way you can already change the drain your self if you really want. Maybe make so you just don’t regain ki in Super Saiyan 3 instead of loosing it by setting energy ticks to 0 instead of a negative variable (Kind of like what happend to Goku when he thought he could recover ki against kid buu but didn’t). That way atleast there’s a since of not being wasteful of your energy while not being out right unmanageable.

    • #49428
      creep
      Participant

      canonically, SSJ3 consumes a lot of energy. if you really want ssj3 to consume less energy, just modify the config file.

    • #50048
      DonaldRTS
      Participant

      I just wanna let you know, that you can change the energy drain of each form if you edit the config files.

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