Why Saiyans are most OP race?

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This topic contains 16 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  CryoTheMayo 1 year, 9 months ago.

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  • #32655

    Oscurum
    Participant

    I see many people complaining that the Saiyans are the most OP race.
    Many of these people do it in an uneducated way, but it is curious, they complain that the Saiyans are very OP when the forum of suggestions and ideas is plagued with “SS4 Idea” “LSS Idea”, complain that the other races They are weak when you contribute to it.
    Now, it is not entirely the fault of the community, think for a moment, What transformations that have come out in some official medium do you think for the Humans ?, And for the Namekians ?, And the Arcosians ?, none really, The maximum would be the Golden Form Full Power or fix the Arcosian PP.
    In contrast the Saiyans still have many Forms to add: Super Saiyan 4, Legendary Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan Rage and Legendary Super Saiyan God.
    The point is that the Saiyans are so OP is something that comes from the same Toriyama.
    This mod tries to imitate the Dragon Ball universe, and so the most correct thing is that the Saiyans are so OP, so the healthiest thing for the community would be to suggest things that help all races.

  • #32656

    Mr. Perfect Cell
    Participant

    i did suggest a mech form for humans. would give them a giant form.

    • #32661

      Oscurum
      Participant

      But it would not be something neither canon nor official.

    • #32662

      Mr. Perfect Cell
      Participant

      battle jackets and pilaf machines.
      those are what i meant by mechsuits.

      also. legendary super saiyan god IS a thing. just look up “dragon ball z: super tenkaichi budokai” it is a ride at universal studios japan.
      i’m sorry. i mean “broly god” it is officially a thing. which sucks, because do we really need to give broly more attention?

    • #32667

      Oscurum
      Participant

      I am not asking for Legendary Super Saiyan God, by the way, I hate Broly and the truth if by my outside, there would be Legendary Super Saiyan in the mod.
      I just wanted to make my opinion known.

    • #32678

      Mr. Perfect Cell
      Participant

      oh i really hate broly too. well, hate is strong. it is more apathy. i couldnt care less whether or not he is in the mod.

  • #32660

    NegativeBoom
    Participant

    Just a small correction on one thing you mention, “Legendary Super Saiyan God” is not a form. The fake form that someone made up for Broly is not canon, and hopefully never will be. Another issue is the fact of humans did get a new form. It’s referred to as Zen-Mode/Form. If you recall during Krillin’s two part section before the Universe Survival Arc.

    Namekians still need Namekian Fusion (As in the Nail/Piccolo or Kami/Piccolo). Of course, that’s not even that difficult to do if you think about it.

    Arcosians don’t even need more forms. They just need their ultimate form to have custom colorization. Another issue is their PP having configs.

    All this post does is simply bring attention to the fact that, yes, Saiyans have an insane amount of forms. However what it doesn’t do is bring attention to the supply of forms that we have left for other races.

    Going to the “healthiest thing for the community” part. There are plenty of things that all races get. However, once again, there are not many things you can add that benefit all races. One such thing that does need to be added desperately is the Instant Transmission. Other things such as the training system still need to be refined severely, and the alignment system still lacks any use besides maybe the SSB/SSR form and just not being able to get Senzu beans from Korin if you’re not good. The only reason why “Saiyans are too OP” is because nobody actually attempts to be strong as any other race but a Saiyan. Namekians are one of the most deadly races if people knew how to use it. Humans as well. Arcosians are obviously deadly.

    The main, and most deadly issue to this community, which is in part due to the training system in place, is this: Not all races technically transform. Power alone should not rely on a transformation. The stats/training system really need to be refined to save us the trouble of arguing for more and more forms. Many people forget that this mod is still in heavy development, especially with Jin being the main coder. My suggestion to anyone who reads this is the following;

    If you want it in the mod, make an addon. Don’t claim “I can’t code!”. It’s not a valid excuse. There are plenty of tutorials on how to do so. Many of which are free. There already is one well known, and very good addon. This is the Armor Addon. If you so desperately want a new form, do it yourself and stop complaining. If you won’t do that, than wait patiently and stop complaining. All it does is add stress to Jin. He is human, like us all, give him the respect he deserves. I know that not everything in the mod at the current moment is top notch, however, you keep asking for update after update. If you want high quality textures AND systems, give him time. It will really benefit you.

    • #32663

      Oscurum
      Participant

      The Legendary Super Saiyan God is not canon, but if official, that is to say, is at the same level as the Super Saiyan 4.
      I at no time I am giving more transformations and powers to the Saiyans, I did not deny that Dragon Block C still has more ways to improve, I simply wanted to express how senseless it is to complain that the Saiyans are strong when this comes from Dragon Ball canon.
      I did not demand a more arduous job of Jin, I know that he is a human and that he is alone in this, since the program all this alone, all you did was misinterpret my message and make me look like one of those people that insults Jin By taking the updates late and demanding content as if they were their bosses.
      I admire Jin a lot and I thank him for everything he has done, if he decides to retire now, he would have no objection, it would be his decision and he should respect it.

      • This reply was modified 1 year, 12 months ago by  Oscurum.
    • #32670

      NegativeBoom
      Participant

      I did not direct most of my reply at you.

      What I will direct at you is the sheer IGNORANCE of your statement.

      As Andrew stated, it is from a RIDE. That ride does NOT make it in any way, shape, or fashion OFFICIAL. It is a form they made up to get more people to ride their rides. They did it for money from the broly-tards. Nothing else. It never appeared in the Manga nor did it appear in the Anime. That means it is not official. Forms such as LSSJ are Official due to their movie appearances. This suggestion of a form being official due to it being featured as a ride at Universal Studios Japan is a mere mockery of official content.

    • #32666

      Mr. Perfect Cell
      Participant

      http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Broly_God

      i don’t know how much you follow outside the anime and manga, but universal studios japan has a ride coming called “dragon ball super tenkaichi budokai” and introduces broly god. it is a thing, just like how lssj 1,2,3, and 4 are a thing in expanded media.
      doesnt mean it makes sense, mind you. i think expanded (officially licensed) media should be considered for the mod.

      and if you want to argue semantics, movie content aren’t really canon. they just aren’t. but theres already movie content IN the mod. (brolys clothes, lord slugs clothes, etc) and ssj4 is planned for the mod, and that is another can of worms.
      point is, expanded (official) media liscensed by toei, from the original dragon ball all the way to super/gt, including movies, specials,and games, are fair game for the mod to include.

    • #32671

      NegativeBoom
      Participant

      This is basically giving Saiyans a bunch of extra forms that will be impossible to balance. Since there are so many extra media forms. The idea of giving this extra media stuff so much more isn’t even worth it. I don’t even think that LSSJ3 should be in the mod. Let alone a whole line of the forms. They aren’t canon. I don’t even want LSSJ or SSJ4 in the mod, but sadly Jin is adding them. What I am trying to say this simple;

      The ride isn’t even media. It’s a ride. A RIDE.

    • #32676

      Mr. Perfect Cell
      Participant

      only a matter of time before we see this in video games, too.

      in the end, it doesn’t really matter. jin can add whatever he wants.
      plus, in all honesty, saiyans were made to be main op characters. that is kind of the point.
      does it suck that other races aren’t balanced? yeah it does. but, what can jin add to make humans and nameks more balanced? without stepping into fanfic terratory?
      saiyans are the spotlight of dragon ball, love it or hate it.

    • #32681

      Jojy
      Participant

      If we’re going to go down the road of ‘Saiyans are meant to be OP, and therefore things don’t need to be balanced,’ then I think it’s only fair that Arcosians have a starting BP in first form of 530,000, because they were meant to be born absurdly strong and not need to train. And while we’re at it, limit humans to a max stat cap of 5000 or so unless they’re an android. Or, you know, realize that the need to adhere strictly to the series breaks game balance, and focus on fun over authenticity.

      • This reply was modified 1 year, 12 months ago by  Jojy.
    • #32685

      NegativeBoom
      Participant

      Continuing the trend of “Saiyans are meant to be OP, and therefore things don’t need to be balanced” fairness;

      Saiyans need to get really damn angry. As in, you don’t get to choose when to first unlock SSJ! You have to get PISSED! Maybe a REALLLYYY hard to fill bar on that one too. You’re no universe 6 saiyan so you get the HARD way!

      Namekians? They can reach insane powers easily! Why? Piccolo did it after Namek.

      Humans? They all become yamcha!

      Arcosians? They get a 30000% extra tp gain for sheer potential!

    • #35448

      Abry
      Participant

      Continuing that….(even more elaborate)
      Namekian:- Put your hand on a guy who got crapped up by a villain while the villain wasn’t using full power or even one of his hands!Get so OP that you beat his transformation!Tada!
      Human:- Go to hell, you’re weak. A Saibaman going boom can rekt ya.
      Arcosian:- Boom!Be a galactic emperor without even training!Train for four months and surpass those who have trained for much longer and have op forms!Boom! Train a bit more and master your transformation!Boom!BOOM!
      Saiyan:- Hell. Rahhhhhhhhgh!Hard to fill SSJ bar! Even harder, SSJ2 bar! Ooh! Die! Train for 7 years! Then get a form that isn’t meant to be used while alive!You get OP drained! BOOM!BOOM!BOOM!!

      • This reply was modified 1 year, 9 months ago by  Abry.
  • #35453

    CryoTheMayo
    Participant

    ” What transformations that have come out in some official medium do you think for the Humans ?, And for the Namekians ?, And the Arcosians ?, none really, The maximum would be the Golden Form Full Power or fix the Arcosian PP.”

    This is kind of wrong.

    Arcosians: Yeah you are right but True Golden would be a pretty damn useful upgrade to have and Golden doesn’t even have an aura yet.

    Humans: You are wrong here, humans have: Four Witches Technique, Krillin’s No Ego Zone (Filler form I admit) and technically MAX has two stages to it, the first is where Master Roshi bulks up as Jackie Chun and the second is where Master Roshi gets super large which he typically uses purely for Kamehameha. You could argue I am pulling at straws here but Four Witches and a Two-stage MAX would certainly be useful to Humans and they are canon to the series.

    Namekians: As other users have said, Namekians have Namek Fusion. I could argue Jin could add an update to Great Namek so you can continue ‘transforming’ in Great Namek to grow larger and larger and thus more powerful as well. The last one to note is not canon per-say but Jin gave SSG to all races, gave Arcosians 5th form and gave Namekians/Humans their Super forms and plans on adding SSJ4 so I don’t think this form will be too crazy to add, the form I am speaking of is the Red-Eye form that Namekians have used in a DBO trailer and the Namekian avatars use in DBH. Red-Eye Namek is shown as a form that a Namekian uses in the DBO Trailer to fight a Super Saiyan and in DBH is treated as a God-Level form on the level of Golden and SSG in power boost.

    You are right that there are not many forms in official media for the other races but Jin has (as I said before) given races forms that have never existed or simply are not canon such as 5th, Super Human and Super Namek along with these races God forms.

  • #35456

    CryoTheMayo
    Participant

    To add further I feel that people who are complaining about Transformations have the incorrect idea or are blaming it on the wrong aspect of races. Transformations can be balanced and altered at your own leisure and honestly Humans/Nameks have forms nearly as strong as SSJ2 and 5th Form by default and their God forms can match a SSG so while they are lagging in raw power in the default config, they can still keep up.

    The real problem with balance in DBC among the races, has to do with stats and general diversity in abilities. Let me elaborate below.

    Saiyans: Massive punch damage edge over other races, Ki damage is stronger than every race but Namekians along with the best transformations overall and soon will get more such as SSJ4.

    Humans: Jack-Of-Trades race which is average in everything. They lack slightly in Ki damage I believe and their only real positives are higher speed than Namekians/Saiyans and virtually unlimited stamina when fighting, which unfortunately due to current mechanics is not useful. I feel Humans could be improved by placing focus on their mastery of skills, seeing as Humans in DB have always been shown as having more talent or creativity with their techniques than the majority of races. So they could get more skill slots and skill slots with less mind. Maybe make it so Humans also use less ki than other races when performing actions that drain ki.

    Half-Saiyans: The absolute sinners of the community, they get custom hair and tail colours (God the rainbows of Great Apes) all SSJ forms, are as fast as Humans in base and become much faster by transforming, are only weaker than Saiyans in punch damage and finally are Jack-Of-Trades like Humans, except their stats are in general just plain better than Humans. Half-Saiyans are the worst race in the mod simply for being the most overpowered. I would suggest changing how Super Saiyan works for Half-Saiyans (Make it so they can’t get SSJ3 or SSJ4 for example or just very difficult) and branch them out from Saiyans at God levels, make it so Mystic and SS Rage are their strongest forms and of course, balance their stats. They should have more speed than Saiyans but less than Humans for example.

    Namekians: These guys are overall perfectly fine, they have the best ki by far and higher health than every other race. The issue is that Ki in itself is not complex or powerful enough to constitute using on a regular basis and it is simply boring to use in it’s current state. Adding more ki technique types and more complexity or diversity in what you can do by levelling ki techniques could repair this flaw. Namekians can also get Namek Fusion and are slated to get Magic in the future of the mod.

    Arcosians: Despite being the most overpowered race depicted in the series, Arcosians appear to be shafted in the mod. Arcosians have only Defense (Which use is dependant on settings in config and Namekians have more health to match this) and their absurd speed, which is certainly a nice boon. Arcosians have average punch damage and health like every race but the Saiyans and Namekians but they have the most pathetic ki abilities by far. Improving upon the PP boost mechanic and giving Arcosians, True Golden would likely give Arcosians more of an edge to make up for this weakness and Jin should, in my opinion, make it so suppression forms provide greater gains from training (Say 4th has 30% chance for TP on insane. Minimal would have 50% and then with weights would have 65% chance. Another idea would be to potentially make Arcosians the race with the 2nd highest Ki damage instead of Saiyans due to Frieza displaying a great deal of Ki technique mastery and Arcosians in the Xenoverse series, having the most Ki Supers damage out of all races.

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