Transformations Are "Too" Strong

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This topic contains 24 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  AkaSora 3 years, 11 months ago.

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  • #7561

    Sishew
    Participant

    Alright, so, even though I sort of just talked about this on another post, I’d like to go into more detail on this topic, and that’s that the racial transformations are a bit too strong. Now, I’m just going to say, I only tested this on Saiyan, but it probably applies just as much to Half-Saiyans, and Arcosions probably also have this in them. And before there are any questions on it, I was testing them at 100%, not 50%.

    So, yesterday, I decided to test out how powerful transformations make you in relation to stats, just because I thought it would be fun to do, and oh man, transformations really surprised me. So, at first, I set all of my stats to 40, I maxed Super Form, and I ascended to SSJ3. I saw that I did gain a huge amount of punch damage, but that’s too be expected. 40 Strength and Willpower being multiplied by the transformations is gonna be a huge number. It was in the 400’s, if I recall correctly. Now, I then created a ki blast with max damage, 200, and saw that, in SSJ3, I did a lot, and I mean a lot of damage. It was above 10k. That’s half of Super Buu’s health, for comparison.

    Moving to the next part of this little experiment, I reverted back to my base form and set all of my stats to 120. My BP said I was way stronger than even my SSJ3 from the last set of stats, but that was a huge lie. I did around 100 less punch damage, and my ki blasts paled in comparison to the power of SSJ3. I didn’t even do a fourth of their damage.

    Now, with this stuff in mind, you can see why I think transformations are a bit too strong, but only really with ki blasts. Their damage gets multiplied so high, that no matter how high your stats are, you’d need to transform to even be able to compare, even though your power level puts them at an insignificant number besides yours. Yes, power levels are stupid, yada yada yada, but they’re supposed to be a scale of how powerful you are. Now, when they’re inaccurate, it kinda makes scouters useless when used on a character, and you’d have to judge their power on their form, not their actual stats.

    Now, for how to go about changing this, I don’t really know how. Punches are fine as they are, but punches really are much smaller numbers than ki blast damage. Even if ki blasts have their power multiplied less, I dunno if it’ll be enough, since a martial artist Saiyan has a bit over 5k health. That’s not a whole lot, considering you can reach that damage very quickly with the help of transformations. So, I can only think of one way to change it. Have ki blasts do more damage in base form, and have very, very small multipliers for transformations. This way, a Saiyan with max stats can deal, like, 2k damage in base form, but deal 3.5k as a SSJ3. It’s not even double, but that is still a rather large number. If you’re wondering, yes, this’d make Saga mobs like Super Buu, who has 20k health, very, very difficult, so a possible health nerf to Android Saga mobs onward could combat this, but there might be other unseen issues I can’t think of either.

    Right now, I am kinda busy, so I don’t have the time to mess with my mods and change everything around and test it all again, so all of the numbers I have listed weren’t the exact ones. I also might have been off on some, but I’m fairly sure that they’re accurate enough to see the problem.

    So, to Jin and anyone else helping at all, I hope you consider what I’ve said and think of a way to fix this, and to other players who enjoy using the mod, what would you change/add/whatever to fix this issue? I’m up for people trying to think of ways to improve and balance the mod, so yeah. Do the typing with those keyboards of yours on this topic.

  • #7564

    Pudelstrudel81
    Participant

    i think it’d be easier to just raise the health of players drastically like make strength and constituiton give you 3 times the health it gives now

    • #7568

      Hirolka
      Participant

      The problem with raising the amount of health that the player has is that it makes Minecraft itself incredibly easy.
      I just got done playing Minecraft and I was able to literally go toe to toe with a Wither in Naruto C with my all stats at just 5 (Granted I had Taijutsu Level 2 and I ate some Cooked Beef to restore my Health).

  • #7565

    Sishew
    Participant

    …Y’know, I knew I would be missing a really simple, yet effective change, and that right there proves I was right in my guess….

  • #7566

    MorgromTheNamek
    Participant

    Well I would actually like the transformations to be close to what the anime/manga has them so actually if anything they should get a boost. But I know that’s unreasonable so a better idea is just make a saga based limit on what transformations you can get, have the limit go away if you play without sagas.

  • #7567

    Sishew
    Participant

    To be close to the manga/anime, the power increase would be immense, like 50x more powerful for just SSJ. So, with just a power level of 1 million, I’d be immensely stronger than anyone’s base form with max stats. The mod has to take liberties for balance. Making the saga limit your transformations wouldn’t solve the problem I saw at all, it’d just prolong the problem for a few hours longer.

  • #7569

    divin4000
    Participant

    You Misspelled ‘Saiyans’, but yea the problem isn’t that transformations multiply your stats (SSJ3 is times 7-ish i think) but that the only races with them are Saiyans (and arcosians, but they take alot of energy and are not as strong ), the simplest way to fix them are to give all races a transformation just as strong as ssj3. Possibly Kaio-ken (should be usable by all races, but only in base, cant me mixed with other forms)

    • This reply was modified 4 years ago by  divin4000.
  • #7571

    Hirolka
    Participant

    It’s pretty shocking to see that transforming as a Saiyan provides that HUGE of a bonus; it really puts into perspective how steep the balance between Saiyans and everyone else is.
    Do you think you could try some testing on how transforming affects Half-Saiyans and Acrosians?

    Because if it doesn’t work the same for them; it might be safe to say that it’s only worth while to create a Saiyan.

    • #7574

      Sishew
      Participant

      Oh, and I didn’t see your post earlier Divin. Yeah, I kinda was just typing on the go, not worrying much about any mistakes. But yeah, it’s around a 7x multiplier, which is insane. However, that multiplier is only really bp, since punches get multiplied less, and ki attacks seem like they get multiplied more. And, while I think every race should get transformations with powers close to SSJ3, it doesn’t really get rid of the problem with a guy able to transform and absolutely destroy a person with three times their stats in one attack. Ki attacks are too good XD.

  • #7572

    Sishew
    Participant

    Well, I don’t see a need to test Half-Saiyans. The thing is, their transformations multiply their power the exact same amount, so that doesn’t matter much. They do have weaker punches and ki attacks, but it is not enough for me to say, “Yeah, Half-Saiyans can’t do anything like a normal Saiyan. Saiyan’s are OP and Half-Saiyans suck.” I’m gonna test Arcosians, though, since their forms multiply their power less (Which is honestly a god send, I mean, it’s impossible to maintain SSJ3 in a fight without outside help. I can’t do anything in that form without holding C forever or bringing lots of food.) I’ll message here after I see if they are any different.

  • #7575

    Sishew
    Participant

    Uhhhh…No clue why that post was a response to Cooler, just, uhh…Just ignore that, for now, and imagine it was sent to you. Heheh…

  • #7576

    Sishew
    Participant

    Ok, so, with 40 in every stat, an Arcosian just using the bulk up, not even transforming, their ki attacks are already stronger than an Arcosian, not transformed, using max stats. And that form multiplies BP as much as SSJ, and the stats seem rather similar in their buffs.

    …However, at the final form with 40 in every stat, I deal almost completely equal punching damage to a max statted, base Arcosian, which isn’t that bad honestly. And their ki blasts at that power only deal 3.4k. Sure, max stat Arcosians only deal a little over 1k, but it’s not as bad with them, which is good. Seems like Saiyans are just a bit OP compared to the others, since they have the strongest forms and the best offensive stats. So yeah, Cooler, it seems like you’re right. It’s only worth it to be a Saiyan.

    • This reply was modified 4 years ago by  Sishew.
    • #7608

      AkaSora
      Participant

      I did the math for the transformations when it comes to punching is for saiyans ssj x1.5 ascended ssj x2.5 ultra ssj x2.9 ssj2 x3.5 ssj3 x4 base while arcosians finalform x2.9 making the final form arcosian equal to an ultra ssj while both players are at max stats because all races and classes has the same level of punching being 361

      • This reply was modified 4 years ago by  AkaSora.
  • #7577

    Sishew
    Participant

    …Weird, the Arcosians have huge BP boosts on their transformations, much larger than even SSJ’s, and Half Saiyans have half the BP of Saiyans with the same stats…The more I mess around, the more strange stuff I find.

  • #7579

    Pudelstrudel81
    Participant

    i just tested how strong my ki attacks get(i am a saiyan)
    and when i transform to ssj3

    my ki attacks are around 5 times stronger than my base
    base=1.9k
    ssj3=11k
    and my bp goes from 10mil to 64mil
    btw i still think raising health is the easiest way of fixing the one shotting
    and as for fights i think that every other race should just get 1-2 transformations(a third is not needed since its practically impossible to sustain ssj3 for more than a minute when you are actively fighting

  • #7580

    Pudelstrudel81
    Participant

    i also think punches should take slightly less ki cuz they are ineffective as hell during a actual fight
    you cand deal like 5times more damage with the same amount of ki if you are using ki attacks
    snd not only that its nort even granted that every punch will do damage cuz for some reason only every 10th punch hits which is annoying as fuck

  • #7598

    Jake
    Participant

    My Idea would be to make punches do significantly less damage, and make them regen a little bit of ki, for example, if you were to be maxxed then you’d only do 60 damage in base, but you’d gain that much Ki after punching, that would make fist fights a lot more realistic to the show, and if you wanted to hit hard, you should just be able to hold right click, for a stronger, but slower blow

    • #7618

      Pudelstrudel81
      Participant

      it wouldnt make it more realistic to the show
      in the show punches,flying,fast movement and ki attacks all drained ki
      and after a while both opponents stepped back,charged up and then continued to fight
      if punches would do less damage and would give you back ki it would be like in xenoverse
      i think punches should stay as they are
      should drain less ki
      should be always a ki punch cuz when it’s not fist fights are luck based without skill involved

  • #7601

    divin4000
    Participant

    i believe Maxed Arcosian (100% Final-Form Max Stats) is about as strong as a maxed Ussj (trunks form), but im basing this off of 1.6.4 so idk

    • #7610

      AkaSora
      Participant

      no your right I did the math its above as a reply

  • #7874

    CalveronGaming
    Participant

    Here is how I see it. Saiyans are just op in the show you wouldnt be able to balance them without making them non fun. In the series its effidnet that saiyans are way more fighting race. And ssj3 is rly easy to matain in a fight max.

  • #7881

    Pudelstrudel81
    Participant

    idk if some body already said it but i’m a saiyan and i admit that the multipliers i incredible
    ssj:2x base
    ssj2:6x base
    ssj3:7x base

  • #7896

    CalveronGaming
    Participant

    I think he should make the multipliesrs like the show just same stat boost as x2

  • #7919

    Pudelstrudel81
    Participant

    yea but that would mess up the Bp sytem even more which already is weird as it is of right now

  • #7928

    AkaSora
    Participant

    I did the math for the transformations when it comes to punching is for saiyans ssj x1.5 ascended ssj x2.5 ultra ssj x2.9 ssj2 x3.5 ssj3 x4 base while arcosians final form x2.9 making the final form arcosian equal to an ultra ssj while both players are at max stats

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