Over-the-top health drain from Kaioken with FPSSJ

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This topic contains 6 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Z_Swordsman 3 years ago.

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  • #22340

    Z_Swordsman
    Participant

    Not much of a bug, but definitely unintended behaviour. For my character, using Kaioken x2 with Super Saiyan 1 (not FPSSJ) drains 150 health per cycle, Kaioken with SS Grade 2 drains 300, and with SS Grade 3 it drains 450 health. Now one might think, that Kaioken with FPSSJ would drain less than 150 health since Full Power SSJ is the mastered and more stable version of SSJ 1, but sadly it sucks ~800 health per cycle.

    I think this behaviour is caused by over-simplified Super Kaioken damage formula, that calculates damage as 150 multiplied by ordinal number of Super Saiyan transformation on the list. So SSJ 1 is number 1 on the list, and FP SSJ is number 4 or 5, so Super Kaioken drains way less health than Full Power Super Kaioken. This is counterintuitive and discourages me from getting to FP SSJ if I ever want to use Super Kaioken.

    P.S. Have mod build 1.41 installed, but was getting it in earlier versions since transformations revamp.

  • #22364

    TehPandaKing
    Participant

    the more your stats are boosted the more health it will drain, it’s that simple

    • #22408

      Z_Swordsman
      Participant

      No, it’s not! Health damage is based entirely on base stats. And did you read my post at all? I said that Full Power SSJ, which is barely stronger than regular SSJ, drains WAY TOO MUCH health with Kaioken than SSJ 1 does, which it shouldn’t be. There isn’t enough of a stat boost compared to regular SSJ (130% FPSSJ vs 120% SSJ in default config) to justify 4 times more damage to health.

      And BTW, both Kaioken and Super Kaioken follow simple formulae. Kaioken does damage depending on base stats calculated as STR + WIL per Kaioken stage (reduced by 10 % for each level in Kaioken skill). Super Kaioken does regular Kaioken damage and adds 5*(STR + WIL) multiplied by SSJ_Form_Index (and this part isn’t affected by Kaioken skill level). So, at Strentgh 50 and Wilpower 50 Kaioken x2 with regular SSJ (index 1) does (50+50)*5*1 + (50+50)*1*0.1 = 510 damage (at skill 10). Kaioken x3 with SSJ will deal (50+50)*5*1 + (50+50)*2*0.1 = 520 damage (not that much different) and so forth. But Kaioken x2 of lvl 10 with FPSSJ does (50+50)*5*4 + 10 = 2010 damage, which is ridiculous considering that Kaioken with SS Grade 2 (stronger than FPSSJ) only does 1010 damage. All that simply because SS Grade 2 has index of 2, and FPSSJ is indexed 4. Check for yourself!

      • This reply was modified 3 years ago by  Z_Swordsman. Reason: typo
  • #22412

    A120
    Participant

    Well, I know one thing. Ssj and Kaioken is never suppose to be a stable thing. The filler Goku pulled off one Kamehameha and dropped it.

    In super, Goku said Kaioken and the normal Super Saiyan transformation would of been way too unstable to even try.

    Just gonna have to wait for SsjBlue. It’s more stable to use Kaioken, even though it’s still pretty risky.

    • #22488

      Z_Swordsman
      Participant

      I know it’s not supposed to be stable. And I don’t care about filler/canon logic in this case. I do care about consistency. My point is, there is technically no difference between SSJ and FPSSJ (it was never told that FPSSJ is actually more powerful than SSJ), so Kaioken FPSSJ should be as hurting as Kaioken SSJ. Currently FPSSJ hurts 4 times more, and it’s ridiculous considering you can transform to SSJ Grade 2 and be damaged 2 times less. I’m not complaining about Super Kaioken doing significant damage to me. I’m complaining about Super Kaioken at FPSSJ dealing MORE damage to user than Super Kaioken at SSJ.

    • #22491

      Say My Name
      Participant

      well, going by Dragon Ball wiki and the anime, Super Kaio Ken have 100% chance of killing the user and, even while dead, Goku couldn’t handle more than a few seconds using it

    • #22497

      Z_Swordsman
      Participant

      For the third time already, I’m not talking if Super Kaioken is canon or not, or if it should be in the mod or not. I merely say that there is no evidence, in both anime and manga, of Full Power Super Saiyan being stronger than Super Saiyan *AT ALL*. If anything, it has less Ki upkeep than Super Saiyan, and that’s it. Still, in DBC Kaioken with Full Power Super Saiyan hurts you 4 times more than Kaioken with regular Super Saiyan, which is plain wrong.

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