Kaioken Addition Suggestion

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This topic contains 11 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  RidingInStyle00 6 days, 5 hours ago.

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  • #36947

    RidingInStyle00
    Participant

    Right now the Kaioken only drains on the health of the player, I believe it should also drain on the stamina. The higher the level of Kaioken, the higher the stamina drain (like the health drain). But, keep the stamina recovery like you are constantly punching and you recover as you punch. Not like you’re bursting during flight and it drains it instantly and doesn’t recover during the burst time. I personally believe it is a tad bit broken right now just draining on Health.

    This would make more sense comparing it to the anime and such, the technique has a huge strain on his (Goku’s) stamina as well as his physical status (health). The technique pushes the user beyond his/her own limits in all physical attributes by a multiplier of X. Further than what the body could do on it’s own, a drain on health as well as stamina makes total sense in this case.

    I feel that there should also be a ki drain when powering it up (like a transformation) as well as maintaining it. Reading on the wiki, it requires “Ki Control” to perform.

    These are all suggestions for the Kaioken to make the technique seem more balanced than it is right now. This will also cause a huge add-up on the player’s character if you have the config of using Super Kaioken set to ‘true’. Although the power increase is insane, the toll is much more on the character’s body.

    I thank you all for reading this suggestion!

    • This topic was modified 3 weeks, 6 days ago by  RidingInStyle00. Reason: Adding in the Wiki link mentioned
  • #36950

    Trevor Cameron
    Participant

    +1

  • #36961

    Meliodas
    Participant

    stfu dont make my gameplay harder for me im already having troubles grinding for ssj4 and maxed phy

  • #36963

    RidingInStyle00
    Participant

    You think Goku has it things easy?
    Even on Dragon Ball Super he can’t hold 3 for very long. Yes he can hold it longer than he could in the Buu Arc, but he still can’t hold it forever. You also can’t grow accustomed to your body pushing itself 100x past it’s own limit.
    The Kaioken was meant to put a strain on the body, small or severe depending on the multiplier.

    This isn’t strictly about making gameplay harder, it is to more balance the Kaioken’s use.
    A stamina loss at minimum should be implemented, but for reasons I’ve stated, a Ki drain would also be nice.
    as the multiplier goes up, so does the drain.

    You can’t sugar coat something like the Kaioken, it isn’t your best friend. It is typically only used in times of extreme need when your character can’t beat somebody without it (Goku Vs. hit, Goku Vs. Jiren)

  • #36965

    Plamen Tsanev
    Participant

    Wait so simply the idea is that the kaio-ken should have a stamina drain, but take stamina only when you punch and after that just regenerate like it does in base form?

  • #36967

    RidingInStyle00
    Participant

    You have a passive stamina regen. While bursting in the air, you drain all of your stamina and it doesn’t recharge while bursting, but instead recharges after bursting.
    Instead of doing that with the Kaioken, drain the stamina passively as if it was a Ki drain, but you still also have the stamina regen like you normally do. The amount of net drain or regen depends on how high your constitution is (more stamina means you passively regen more).

    Theres still also a stamina comsumption when punching however, so the drain would be double only while punching.

    That was what I meant, and if it still doesn’t make sense I can carefully re-word it if necessary.

  • #36971

    Sam Noé
    Participant

    Aaaaah, someone who still cares about Kaioken, nice to meet you *handshake*.
    Well it could be also like this : Kaioken drains slowly stamina(slower than dash cuz otherwise it’s unusable) and also takes away a bit of it when you punch, and reaching a too low stamina level makes you drop out. But your body is put under extreme condition. It can’t fight both the strain and your opponent. So the damage you take are sligthly increased.
    For the others who are going to be like “BUT WTF ARE YOU SAYIN BRUH ?”, first hang on cuz I’m not done, and second Kaioken is meant to quickly put an end to a fight by either allowing you to pummel hard enough to finish in a few blows or bringing you to the verge of death by exhausting your body. It has never been meant to be a defensive nor long usage technique.
    Now I shall continue.
    If you go to a too high level of Kaioken (like your skill is level 3 and you go to Kaiokenx100, I know it’s not possible right now but let’s guess), not only you will lose instantly a bunch of stamina, but also even if you still have some left the drain becomes 10 times worse, AND a(heavy) health drain appears (cuz your body can’t keep up anymore with the strain).
    “UR CRAZY DUDE” you gonna say, but Kaioken is OP as fuck right now, I mean you can put it on the top on almost anything for a very cheap price that’s a bit of life each 10 seconds while you have Endurance lvl 10 and a sky-high CONS.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 6 days ago by  Sam Noé.
  • #36983

    RidingInStyle00
    Participant

    See it is extremely OP and broken. As you said it isn’t meant to be used as a defensive technique, and meant to be pulled out as like a last resort. The health drain would need to increase a lot, it’s really low right now, and with 5000+ HP, I can hold X100 for 20 minutes. The most important addition I’m trying to get here is at least a stamina drain that increases with each level of the Kaioken (But as I stated already, the total net drain or gain depends on your level of constitution), X100 being a HUGE drain. Put this way so that you can’t pull it off with a Const. of say 5000. DON’T NERF THE KAIOKEN, it wasn’t meant to be toyed with. Goku never used it for a reason.

    I’m glad someone also cares about the Kaioken and it’s current brokeness on this mod. Don’t take my statement the wrong way, I LOVE the mod and additions that are being made to it. However a fix/addition like this should take priority. Since Jin has already put in a health drain (needs to be un-nerfed however, too low in my honest opinion), all he needs is a really good stamina drain. If we want to go back to the “Ki Control”, then add in a passive Ki drain as well.

    The Kaioken isn’t a toy, and is extremely overpowered right now. Just look at the anime and see how often Goku actually used the Kaioken. For a warrior of his might, you can see how damaging it is. It’s this damaging because it takes the users highest limit, and multiplies it by X temporarily. THE BODY CAN’T DO THIS NATURALLY, THAT’S WHY THIS IS A TECHNIQUE. So duh there would be strain, the body can’t handle it like this.

    I would love to see the Kaioken revised to actually be “useful” and more realistic to the show/manga. A teeeeennny health drain is nowhere close to matching the show. I have a Const. of about 800 on my character right now, and he can hold X100 for a LONG time. It’s ridiculous, the health drain needs to be un-nerfed, and there needs to be a really good stamina drain as well.

    50% every 10 seconds, meaning only holding it for 20 seconds. This seems very reasonable, giving X20 (10%) 100 seconds to drain completely. The passive stamina regen will need to be disabled during the time of the Kaioken however lol.

    I have a list below for potential stamina drains per multiplier. They pull a certain percentage of your stamina every 10 seconds. As the technique uses the users current power, stamina drain shouldn’t be less or more depending on the constituion level. It takes the CURRENT power and multiplies that. Goku using X4 against Vegeta during the Saiyan arc of Z doesn’t change the amount of strain compared to the amount of strain if he’d use it now during Super.

    For X2, 3, and 5, I don’t quite know what percentages you’d put in. So I followed the same rules I did for X20, 50 and 100 which is:

    Multiplier / 2 = Stamina Drain % Per 10 Seconds

    X2 = 1%
    X3 = 1.5%
    X5 = 2.5%
    X20 = 10%
    X50 = 25%
    X100 = 50%

    Also as a side note, I think there should be a selection menu of some sort to choose which Kaioken level you’d like to power up to. Having to “transform/ascend” all the way up to X100 takes a while and it’s still pounding on your health while you do it (For the new players who have low health, for higher level players, it isnt as much of an issue).

    I thank you all for reading this again and I hope Jin sees this and implements this in some way.

  • #36989

    Andrew Hamilton
    Participant

    I agree it should drain more health, but too many things drain stamina too fast as it is.

  • #36991

    RidingInStyle00
    Participant

    You think Goku doesn’t have this issue when he uses it? I’ve mentioned it already, but the Kaioken is used as a last resort, it isn’t meant to be kept active for as long as a transformation. It puts tremendous strain on the body. Yes X2 would drain slower than X100, but it’s still a drain on the body.

    You force your body to unaturally go X100 past it’s own current limit, or just X2 past. There’s a reason why it is never used. It’s a dangerous technique. I don’t get why people are complaining about making the “gameplay harder”, or “no stamina drain”.
    I suppose some people need to read up on what the Kaioken actually does to your body.

    I apologize if I sound rude, but these complaints about the Kaioken ideas are not needed. It is too broken right now as is, and to make it more realistic to the show and what it ACTUALLY does to the body, a stamina drain is absolutely necessary. This is a last resort, how many times did you see Goku pull it out in DBZ? Almost never since the Saiyan Saga. In Super he uses it more due to the complete Ki and mind control in the form of SSB, however the strain still affects him. Take a look at the first time he used it while fighting Hit. He had serious issues for a short time afterwards at X10.

  • #36995

    RidingInStyle00
    Participant

    There actually isn’t much that drains on the stamina as is. Yes the stamina system needs to be re-worked and nerf the usage on things just a bit. The dashing in the air is horrendus and you can’t dash for more than 5 seconds no matter how much stamina you have, and the dodge can be nerfed a little bit to not use as much stamina. Other than that, there honestly isn’t much that drains on stamina minus the punches. As for the dodge and dash, I hardly ever use them because of the already huge stamina drain it has unless I’m in a experimental fight (Like one against a spawned Golden Frieza). Other than that, all that needs to happen on the stamina drain part is the dodge and dash be nerfed.

  • #37519

    RidingInStyle00
    Participant

    I guess this wasn’t a popular idea to think about.

    Oh well, bummer I guess. Would just be nice to see the Kaioken more balanced.

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